First Discussion

The Father's Plan

Biblical Response

God Has a Plan

The Plan Of Our Heavenly Father

We believe in God

God is Perfect

God is our Father in Heaven

God has a Plan for us

The first discussion describes God using Christian sounding language that will not be explained until the future. 

They believe in God, but he is different in ways they wish to avoid mentioning this early in the teaching process.

Christians believe God is infinitely holy. Mormons prefer the word "perfect." It sounds Christian. It allows belief in a God once sinful and human who, by obedience, was able to obtain perfection, exaltation and godhood. .

Christians believe God is our Father in Heaven as well as Mormons. But the idea they do not usually bring up until later is his fully physical nature and celestial wife.

Christians also believe God has a plan for us.  But the Bible's plan does not include all humans living co-eternally with God in eternity past. It also lacks a path for human beings to eventually become gods.

First Discussion

The Divine Sonship of Christ

Biblical Response

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ

The Divine Son-Ship Of Jesus Christ

We need to overcome sin and death

Christians also believe in the divine Son-ship of Jesus Christ. But the Bible sees Christ's divinity as part of His eternal nature. The Biblical Christ was always fully God in eternity past [Jn 1:1-3]. He added humanity to his deity so he could fulfill the Father's plan as a substitutional Lamb of God on the cross [Jn 1:14, 18].

Christians also believe we need to overcome sin and death. But the Bible pathway to salvation is through placing our faith in Christ's completed work on the cross [Rom 10:9].

Mormons also believe in putting their faith in Christ, but also believe it is their individual responsibility to "endure to the end" in obedience to the Gospel. Christians also believe they endure to the end but they see the energy for this new life coming from God and not self [John 10:29].

The language of this discussion is brief and Christian "sounding" in tone. It is not until later that these terms are more fully explained.  

First Discussion

Christ Fulfilled God's Plan

Biblical Response

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ

God sent Jesus Christ to fulfill the plan (John 3.16)

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV)

Christians fully agree that God sent Jesus Christ to fulfill the plan and use John 3:16 as evidence also. "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life" [Rom 5:10].

Read the verses around John 3:16. Use 3:14 to pull the discussion into the Old Testament [Num. 21:7-9]. Point out how Jesus used that illustration to demonstrate what Biblical faith is like.

Ask the missionaries about their own new birth [they generally equate it with their own water baptism]. Ask them if water baptism is being presented here as the path to the new birth.

Point to the Old Testament sacrificial system.

Why did John call Jesus the Lamb of God [Jn. 1:29]. When God's people presented their sacrificial lamb to the priests to be killed it was carefully examined first to be sure it was not flawed. But no one examined the person making the offering. All human being have sinned [Rom. 3:29]. Even the priests had to bring their own offerings and receive forgiveness before they could ministered for the people [Heb 7:27].

First Discussion

Christ overcame sin and death

Biblical Response

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ

Christ overcame sin and death

Christians believe Christ's work on the cross was a completed work as evidenced in the New Testament. "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" [Heb 10:10].

"But He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD" [Heb 10:12].

"And not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption" [Heb 9:12].

His work also assured our eternal lives over death. "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also" [John 14:19].

"Who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [Rom 8:34-35]

First Discussion

Christ Showed Us How

Biblical Response

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ

Christ showed us how to fulfill the plan (John 14.6)

John 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (KJV)

 LDS Notes Left Out of the Discussions

His life was one of moral perfection—he was sinless and completely submissive to the will of the Father (John 5:30; 2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 4:15; 1 Pet. 2:22; Mosiah 15:2). Jesus is the model and exemplar of all who seek to acquire the divine nature. As taught by Joseph Smith, the Savior "suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be." Through all of this, "he kept the law of God, and remained without sin" (Lectures on Faith, Lecture 5, paragraph 2). The risen Lord asked the Nephites, "What manner of men ought ye to be? Verily I say unto you, even as I am" (3 Ne. 27:27; cf. 12:48). Robert L. Millet, Jesus Christ an Overview, Ency of Mormonism 

Christians also believe Christ showed us how to fulfill the plan. But this plan was already demonstrated in John 3:16.

John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

Mormons have a wrong view of the "example" Christ set in the New Testament. They believe to be born again the faithful must follow Christ into post cross works enduring to the end.

But the New Testament clearly teaches that obedience is one of faith. We are to believe in the finished work of Christ on the cross. Christ did not lead the way by showing how these crosses accomplish our salvation. That is not the Biblical way to the Father.

All humans but Christ are sinners. The Father is holy. He can not receive a blemished offering. Our only hope for eternal life with the Father is in the way we have been united in Christ through Christ's offering.

The New Testament, as a major theme, presents a "believer's cross." But this cross is one we bear daily. It is not the pathway to the new birth or to exaltation and deity.

First Discussion

Have Faith To Do What He Taught

Biblical Response

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ

Have Faith To Do What He Taught

LDS Notes Left Out of the Discussions

Faith in Jesus Christ is the first principle of the gospel of Jesus Christ (A of F 4). By faith they enter the gate of repentance and baptism, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, which leads to the way of life ordained by Christ (2 Ne. 31:9, 17-18). True faith is belief plus action. LDS devotion to the primary role of grace while concurrently emphasizing self-reliance stems from a unique doctrinal view of man's nature and destiny. After one has received Christ's gospel of faith, repentance, and baptism unto forgiveness of sin, relying "wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save," one has only "entered in by the gate" to the "strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life" (2 Ne. 31:17-20). In this postbaptism stage of spiritual development, one's best efforts—further works—are required to "endure to the end" (2 Ne. 31:20). These efforts include obeying the Lord's commandments and receiving the higher ordinances performed in the temples, and continuing a repentance process as needed "to retain a remission of your sins" (Mosiah 4:12).

Enc Mormonism, Faith, Grace

Christians also have faith to do what He taught. This is the fabric of Christianity. But faithful obedience is never presented Biblically as the pathway to salvation.

A faithful response to Christ is an absolute necessity in coming to the Father. Rom 10:9 - "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Christ said "whoever hears these words of mine and does them is like those intelligent people who build their houses upon rock" [Mt 7:24-25].

Christians affirm a high view of being obedient. But their source of righteousness must come solely from Jesus Christ. If we examine the sacrificial system in the Old Testament the priests examined a person's offering before slaying it to see if it was without spot or imperfection. But no one was looking for perfect people. Even the priests first had to offer a sacrifice for their own sins. To approach God on the basis of one's own righteousness is called self righteousness and it is forbidden in the Bible [Rom 10:3, 9:31-32; Lk 16:15, 18:9-12, Gal 5:3-4, Phil 3:9, Rev 3:17-18, Isa 64:6, Jer 2:13]. 

First Discussion

God Follows Patterns

Biblical Response

God Has a Plan

How The Plan Has Been Revealed

Christians, like Mormons believe the plan has been revealed. Christians believe God reveals his thoughts to prophets who sometimes are commanded to write them down which process the Bible calls inspiration. God's inspired word was initiated by God. 

First Discussion

God follows a pattern

Biblical Response

God Has a Plan

God follows a pattern

Christians also believe God follows a pattern of His own design. We see Him from the earliest section of Genesis revealing Himself as the Divine Potter. God formed Adam out of clay [Gen 2:7]. Later we see this as a theme throughout both Testaments as God chooses to shape the clay in His image.

Elsewhere Jesus said the Father is like a Divine Gardener [Jn 15]. In that illustration we see God "shaping" His vines into useful shapes which promote growth, maturity and more fruit production. 

First Discussion

God Chooses Prophets

Biblical Response

Pattern Biblical Prophets

He chooses witnesses (Amos 3.7)

Amos 3:7 - Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. (KJV)

Christians also believe God chooses witnesses. But as we examine their example from the prophet Amos, we see that lack agreement with the way Joseph Smith was called.

Amos 3:7 - Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.

If  we examine this passage in Amos we see it in an important context. God was, unhappily, doing a "secret" thing in the land. This was because their beliefs turned to rebellious polytheism and they were enslaving God's people in their own land.

Amos was a sheep rancher and fig grower from Tekoah. He was not of a priestly family nor was he the son of a prophet.

Most scholars date Amos writing around 760 B.C. He was contemporary with Uzziah of Judah and Jeroboam II of Israel.

This was in an unfortunate period of history which was typified by pluralism and polytheism [2 King 14:24-25, Hosea 2:13, 16-17, 3:4, 4:12, 10:2, 11:2]. This period was typified by an oppressive enslaving of God's people [Amos 2:6-8, 3:15, 4:1, 5:7-12, 6:3-6, 8:4-6, Hos 4:1-2, 11-13, 6:8-9, 12:7-8].

Worship of Yahweh was not forbidden but the people had been led to mix His worship with pagan deities [Hos 2:13,16-17; 3:4; 4:12; 10:2; 11:2].

Because God still loved His people He gave Amos a message of prophetic warning to turn. But they had been following dangerous false prophets for too long [Deu 13]. Amos' cry was ignored. Justice was ignored. In response, Holy God raised up an Assyrians king to bring justice back into Palestine. Much archeological evidence supports the reality of this tragic period.

First Discussion

Prophets Testify About Christ

Biblical Response

Know the Truth

The prophets testify of Christ

Christians also believe the prophets testify of Christ. The record of Biblical Messianic prophecy about Christ is evidenced throughout the Old Testament and the New. We see the Herodians using their knowledge of Messiah's birthplace in an attempt to thwart the will and purposes of God [Mt 2:1-5, Micah 5:2].

Luke 24:44 - Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

First Discussion

Holy Ghost Confirms Truth

Biblical Response

Know the Truth

The Holy Ghost confirms Truth

Christians agree in believing the Holy Spirit confirms truth. One of the names of the Holy Spirit is Spirit of Truth [John 14:17]. The Biblical Holy Spirit is revealed as fully God and fully Spirit in a non personage with a limiting size or shape.

"That is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you." [Jn 15:26, 16:13, 1 Jn 4:6].

It is important to notice how the Biblical Spirit is linked both with the words Holy and Truth.

When we study both words we see them also linked with Christ and the Father.

Holy defines a separation from the common, ordinary or sinful. Truth defines something free from error, deception, or half truth. Truth corresponds to genuine reality in the Bible. Simply put, truth is what God says. 

Mormons use the archaic word "ghost" in reference to the Holy Spirit. In the original Greek both comes from pneuma in all cases which always means spirit [ghost in 1600]. Mormons still use the King James Version of the Bible which identifies the "Holy Ghost" about 70 times.

At this point in the discussions, missionaries will try and avoid sharing details about the person and work of their Holy Ghost.

D&C 130:22 "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."

Mormons believe the Holy Ghost, while being spirit, is in the "image" of the Father and Son which is a human sized shape.

D&C 130:3  "John 14:23--The appearing of the Father and the Son, in that verse, is a personal appearance; and the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false."

Because the Holy Ghost is a local spiritual personage they believe he uses a spiritual force called the "Light of Christ" to accomplish works which necessitate omnipresence.

First Discussion

An Invitation to Obey

Biblical Response

Build Your House Upon The Rock

We are invited to obey

Christians agree in believing we are invited to obey. The Gospels are in complete agreement about our response to Christ. We must set aside all else and follow Christ by faith.

John 6:28-29 - Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Jesus never said we could approach the Father based on our own righteous works. These were everywhere condemned. Matt 5:3 - "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Beginning with John the Baptist we see a call to repent from our sins. Mark 1:15 - and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." [Lk 13:3, Act 2:38, 3:19, 17:30, 26:20].

Christ said, "Whoever hears these words of mine and does them is like those intelligent people who build their houses upon rock" [Mt 7:24-25].

First Discussion

Joseph Smith Modern Witness

Biblical Response

A Biblical Witness

The Prophet Joseph Smith: A Modern Witness

LDS Notes Left Out of the Discussions

Doctrine and Covenants 135:3

"Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it."

"Joseph Smith was chosen for the last dispensation or Seventh Dispensation The time the grand council Set in heaven to organize this world Joseph was chosen for the last & greatest Prophet to lay the foundation of Gods work of the Seventh Dispensation therefore the Jews asked John the Baptist if he was Elias or Jesus or that great prophet that was to come." Ehat & Cook, Words of Joseph Smith - Nauvoo Discourses, George Laub Journal: 12 May 1844, 369-370.

"I look upon Joseph Smith as the greatest prophet that ever breathed the breath of life, excepting Jesus Christ. Father Adam, as I have said, stands at the head; but Joseph Smith was reserved to lay the foundation of this great kingdom and dispensation of salvation to the whole human family in these last days, to build up Zion, to establish God's kingdom, and to prepare it for the coming of the Son of Man. He held these keys…." March 3, 1889. The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, p.67

"Brother Woodruff, in the course of his remarks, made the assertion that Joseph Smith was the greatest prophet that has ever lived, of whom we have any knowledge, save and except Jesus Christ himself." Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, p.480

Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol.3, p.247

Christians do not agree that Joseph Smith was a modern witness or prophet. The Biblical model for a proper witness is John the Baptist.

We see John's birth being foretold in the Old Testament. Matthew links this with Isaiah  40:3. A second Old Testament witness to identify John was Malachi 3:1.

Luke wrote about the Baptist's birth which was associated with miracles. His first chapter is devoted to John's birth rather than Jesus [Lk 1].

John also mentions John in his first chapter sharing his testimony "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" [John 1:29, 36]

Mark's first chapter opens with John's ministry preparing the way for Christ. The important thing about John was his personal integrity. His message came from God [Jn 1:6] and he knew that even though the dessert was crowded with his disciples he faithfully pointed the way away from self [Jn 1:20] to Jesus Christ. Speaking to his own disciples he said "He must increase, but I must decrease" [John 3:30].

John the Baptist also paved the way as a proper model for the way a Biblical witness dies faithfully for his testimony [Mk 6:27-29], Jesus referred to John the Baptist as the greatest among men [Mt 11:11].  Whenever Jesus was ministering among the scribes and Pharisees and needed to defend His authority all he had to do was mention the prominent, faithful witness of John the Baptist and His enemies were silenced [Jn 5:32-33].

JESUS' WITNESS

John 5:36-37 - "But the testimony which I have is greater than {the testimony of} John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish-- the very works that I do-- testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.

"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

PAUL'S WITNESS

Gal 1:6-7 - I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is {really} not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

First Discussion

God's Pattern for Revelation

Biblical Response

Revelation and Truth

In our day, God has followed his pattern for revealing Truth

Christians agree that in our day God has followed His pattern for revealing Truth. But Christians do not agree that the revelations from Joseph Smith were examples of revealed truth.

In the Bible we see God revealing His thoughts to the hearts and minds of human prophets. Then, when they were directed to do so, God also "inspired" or "God-breathed" the revelations onto paper or stone that He wanted to preserve for our day. Today, the Holy Spirit is still "illuminating" God's word for readers and students as faithfully as in past generations. The revelations of God are  available to humanity today. 

Gal 1:12 - For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Here Paul claims boldly to be a genuine apostle of Jesus Christ. Yet Paul was not one of the original twelve. How did Paul come to learn Christian theology? By direct revelation from Jesus Christ Himself.

The word "revelation" comes from "apokalupsis" which means to disclose something not previously manifested. W. E. Vine says it is "an expression of the mind of God for the instruction of the church, 1 Cor. 14:6,26, for the instruction of the Apostle Paul, 2 Cor. 12:1,7; Gal. 1:12, and for his guidance, Gal. 2:2]."  [Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words].

If we examine the New Testament record we see the early church teaching the "apostles" writings in the churches [Acts 2:42].

2 Tim 3:16 - 4:4 - 16 "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;  so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.  I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:  preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4. and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

As the church grew their writing became more and more important due to the proliferation of false apostles [2 Cor 11:13].

Before the time of the death of the last apostle in around A.D 96 we see the apostle John told that the canon of the New Testament was closing with his final revelation [Rev 22]. The language John used in closing the New Testament borrowed from closure language previously used in closing the Old Testament Law [Deu 4:2, 12:32].

First Discussion

Joseph Smith Confused

Biblical Response

 Are Mormons Still Confused?

Joseph Smith was confused about religion

Christians agree that Joseph Smith was confused about religion. 

The elders present Joseph Smith right after reading Amos 3:7. They are claiming Joseph was given a similar message using a similar pattern in 1820. Today Mormons call that revelation The First Vision. To date historians have found up to ten differing versions of this vision being spread by the early church.

If Joseph Smith had met the Jesus Christ of the New Testament and shared confusion what message would he have received? The record is clear as we read about others who did the same thing.

Nicodemus was led to have faith in Christ's being raised up on the cross. He was led toward a required new birth.

The woman at the well was led away from worshiping on the wrong mountain [Jn 4:22]. He identified Himself as the proper Messiah [Jn 4:26]who had available Living Waters which could bring eternal life [Jn 4:14].

Jesus also identified the true nature of worship

[John 4:23].

What was Joseph Smith confused about? His own writings suggest he was struggling with differing claims being made by evangelists coming through New York.

First Discussion

Joseph Asked for Wisdom

Biblical Response

Revelation a Thought from God

(The Pearl of Great Price, JS-H 1.8)

James 1:5 - If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. KJV)

Joseph learned how to gain wisdom (The Pearl of Great Price, JS-H 1.8; James 1.5)

Joseph prayed for wisdom

Joseph claimed he was confused about religion in his middle teen years and turned to his family Bible for help finding James 1:5.

James 1:5 - If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

Mormons use James 1:5 as a promise passage for new revelation from God. All we have to do is boldly ask in faith and God will present new revelation to any seeker.

Christians do not see James 1:5 this way. If we examine James letter we see a different picture there. Most scholars date this letter one of the first Christian letters put to pen in the first century. James was killed in A.D. 62, it must have been written earlier that than date.

James was pastor of a large church in Jerusalem made up of converted Jews. He was writing to encourage genuine Christian growth and maturity in the face of terrible persecution.

When Jews became Christians in that period they were put out of the synagogue. This meant they were also cut off from family wills and considered as dead. Many new converts were led to confusing temptation to doubt the reality of their faith in Christ which led to the persecution in the first place. A reading of the passage in context is helpful:

James 1:2-5 -   Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

If we examine this passage James is offering wisdom not new revelations. Wisdom comes from "sophia" which means to apply knowledge. W.E. Vine says "it is used with reference to (a) God, Rom. 11:33; 1 Cor. 1:21,24; 2:7; Eph. 3:10; Rev. 7:12; (b) Christ, Matt. 13:54; Mark 6:2; Luke 2:40,52; 1 Cor. 1:30; Col. 2:3; Rev. 5:12; (c) "wisdom" is personified, Matt. 11:19; Luke 7:35; 11:49; (d) human "wisdom" (1) in spiritual things, Luke 21:15; Acts 6:3,10; 7:10; 1 Cor. 2:6 (1st part); 12:8; Eph. 1:8,17; Col. 1:9, RV, "(spiritual) wisdom," 28; 3:16; 4:5; Jas. 1:5; 3:13,17; 2 Pet. 3:15; Rev. 13:18; 17:9; (2) in the natural sphere, Matt. 12:42; Luke 11:31; Acts 7:22; 1 Cor. 1:17,19, 20,21 (twice), 22; 2:1,4, 5,6 (2nd part), 13; 3:19; 2 Cor. 1:12; Col. 2:23; (3) in its most debased form, Jas. 3:15, "earthly, sensual, devilish" (marg., "demoniacal") [Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words].

This is very different from the word revelation which came from "apokalupsis" which means to disclose something not previously manifested. Wisdom means to apply  something you already know well.

First Discussion

Joseph Saw Father and Son

Biblical Response

You Shall Have No Other God's

Joseph saw God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son

(The Pearl of Great Price, JS-H 1.16-17)

The current 2003 version of the Uniform Plan for sharing the missionary discussions claims Joseph Smith was introduced to two Gods in 1820.

This version of the First Vision has not always been what Joseph shared. Earliest accounts claimed he saw angels or God. Historians today have found up to ten differing versions of this event. One in his own hand writing did not agree with this version that is so widely accepted today.

The Bible presents the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as being One True God. The Jews were famed as monotheists in this period of their history. They had flirted with polytheism earlier to their hurt and danger. By Jesus day monotheism was rigidly applied.

When Christ presented Himself to start His ministry publicly He never said "here am I Israel's second God. This would have necessitated His death by stoning as a sinner in violation of the Ten Commandments. Had Jesus really been a polytheist He would have been a sinner. Any sin in Jesus life would have disqualified Him as the Lamb of God who had to be sinless.

First Discussion

Joseph Saw Father and Son

Biblical Response

You Shall Have No Other God's

Joseph Smith History 1:16-17

 16. But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction--not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being--just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.

17. It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other--This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

These two verses are from the Pearl of Great Price. It is one of the LDS Church's Four Standard Works. Those works includes the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.

Apologetic Note:

Anytime a Christian sites a Bible passage about the person or work of God the Father or Jesus Christ your Mormon friend or missionary instantly filters that passage mentally through these two verses from Joseph Smith's History.

In this first discussion the missionaries are not fully focusing on the Restoration. This will come later. But they want to introduce this vision as being important.

Christians see the Father and Son as the same One True God that the Jews historically worshiped. Christians note evidence that God is very complex in personality. But that complexity does not redefine God into being two gods. The Biblical evidence includes first person statements from God saying over and over again that He is One!

Deut 6:4-6 - - "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: . And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart" (KJV)

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" [Ex 20:3, cf. Deut 6:14].

Isa 43:10-11

"You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me there was no God formed, and there will be none after me. "I, even I, am the LORD, and there is no savior besides me.

I examined the evidence of what God has been saying for thousands of years in the Old and New Testaments. As I compared those very clear statements with what this new prophet is claiming about "two separate gods" someone must not be telling the truth. 

First Discussion

Joseph Was a Prophet of God

Biblical Response

Instructions on False Prophets

Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God

We have two stories that conflict. God in the first person said He is only One God. And  Joseph Smith claims he saw two Gods. Looking back over time we understand this is not unique. God made provision for just such occasions that He included in the final passages of the Law.

Deut 13:1-3

"If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,

and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, "Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

God commanded His people giving exact instruction when presented with confusion. God said we should "investigate" and "search out" and "inquire thoroughly" about the matter.

Deut 13:14

Then you shall investigate and search out and inquire thoroughly. If it is true and the matter established that this abomination has been done among you.

This commandment from God's Law is in contrast to what the LDS missionaries are saying. They are inviting Christians to pray and see if they experience a warm fuzzy feeling in our hearts.

First Discussion

Joseph Smith is a Witness of Christ

Biblical Response

Behold the Lamb of God

Joseph Smith is a Witness of Christ

Christians disagree when missionaries say Joseph Smith is a witness of Christ.

The First Vision presents a Christ and Father who are actually two human beings who grew and progressed into being gods. 

Is this the Christ of the Bible? We see from John's prologue that Jesus being fully God from eternity past yet with God yet God. [Jn 1:1-3].

JOHN THE BAPTIST

The Old Testament demanded Jesus have a forerunner [Mal 3:1, 4:5-6]. Luke testified that John the Baptist arrived with a miraculous birth known by everyone in Jerusalem as John the Baptist [Lk 1]. Mark opened his Gospel with the Baptist's ministry. "John testified saying, "I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, "He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.' "I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God." [John 1:32-34]

First Discussion

The Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith

Biblical Response

Instructions on False Christs

The Book Of Mormon: Another Testament Of Jesus Christ

 Christians do not see the Book of Mormon as another Testament of Jesus Christ. Christian students of the Book of Mormon agree that Jesus Christ is a main feature of the book.

The name of Christ is first appears in 2 Nephi 35 times. It is in Jacob 19, Enos 3, Omni 1, Words of Mormon 3, Mosiah 30, Alma 70, Helaman 14, 3 Nephi 34, 4 Nephi 13, Mormon 27, Ether 14, and Moroni 55 times.

But the Christ of the New Testament was mentioned by influencial contemporaries like, Flavius Josephus (A.D. 37-95), P. Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120), Pliny The Younger (A.D. 61-113), Trajan the Roman Emperor [A.D. 98-117], Lucian of Samosata (A.D. 120-190), Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus (c. A.D. 69-140), and Thallus (52 A.D.).

Thousands of ancient manuscripts [like P⁵² from A. D. 110] contain his name and portions of New Testament writings.

Also a growing number of archeological artifacts bear out Christ in a New Testament setting in the geography of Palestine where you would expect to find him from reading the texts of the New Testament. One recent impressive find includes the 2,000 year old ossuary which bears the inscription "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus."

But when scholars investigate Book of Mormon claims that Jesus Christ was being worshiped in Mesoamerica we see no facts to support those claims. Mormons have long identified the Maya as being Christians. This is still the case in BYU courses on the Book of Mormon which also feature tours of the Book of Mormon. Literature from tours evidence that temples and artifacts are still being explained as if these were ancient Christian temples. Modern scientists who have been studying ancient Mesoamerican DNA say these people came from Siberia not Palestine. Modern linguists have come to the same conclusion.

First Discussion

The Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith

Biblical Response

Instructions on False Prophets

Joseph Smith brought forth the Book of Mormon

There are many theories about the origin and development of the Book of Mormon. Not many, outside the LDS Church, believe this was the product of a young man, who was identified by his wife and mother, as being barely able to write a letter at that stage of his life.

The basic premise of the book was in agreement with most folk beliefs about the origin of the American Indians in 1830.

One theory say Joseph obtained a manuscript of an unpublished fictional account of some Jews coming to ancient America. That theory says Joseph Smith and some friends adapted that plot line into the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon.

Some important theories are:

Alexander Campbell (1788-1866) was the founder of the Disciples of Christ. He was an associate of Sidney Rigdon before conversion to Mormonism. Campbell's research said it was not written by multiple ancient prophets. Instead it came out of Joseph Smith's head. He asserted the Book of Mormon misunderstands Israelite and Jewish history. Later research convinced Campbell to adopt the Spaulding-Rigdon theory. This theory states Rigdon obtained a copy of a manuscript by Solomon Spaulding titled Manuscript Lost. From this he

developed it into the Book of Mormon, which he passed on to Joseph Smith in the late 1820s.  Later both men pretended they met one another   the first time in 1830.

Many non-Mormons today see the Book of Mormon as a product from the head of Joseph Smith. Most see no evidence for inspiration. Those holding to this view conclude if it lacks inspiration and historical value it should be rejected along with Joseph Smith's claims of the divine origin of the Mormon Church.

A growing number of people still involved in some way with the LDS Church [or one of its hundreds of fringe groups] accept some level of inspiration but deny its historical authenticity. This group affirms inspiration, but rejects it as a product of antiquity.

[Stephen D. Ricks, Book of Mormon Studies, Encyclopedia on Mormonism]

First Discussion

The Book of Mormon and Prophets

Biblical Response

Continue in My Word

The Book of Mormon contains the writings of Prophets

For the Book of Mormon to contain the writings of prophets the writings they produce must stand up to the rigid standard of being genuine. They must evidence being the product of "revelation." To be genuine writings they must evidence they were "inspired" and "illuminated" by the Holy Spirit like the Old and New Testaments. 

What does a genuine revelation from God look like? First, it comes from the mind of a Holy God. Criteria for Biblical revelation include perfection. It also will have the effect of restoring the soul of those who study it. It will be right making it a proper standard for faith and conduct. A study will result in a rejoicing heart. It is pure. It enlightens the eyes of those who study it. It will also produce a fear of the Lord. It will have an enduring eternal quality. It will also be true. When dealing with judgment they will be completely righteous. Those who study will come away with the idea they are more desirable than gold. This puts these writings in a rare category among world writings. [Psalm 19:7-11]. 

If we examine these claims in light of the Book of Mormon, we do see many non-Mormons who claim this book is "revelation" that is "inspired" and "illuminated" by the Holy Spirit.

But the Book of Mormon is a confusing collection that includes many Bible passages.

Nearly one third of the Book of Isaiah has been cut and pasted into the Book of Mormon with changes. We also see passages from Malachi.

And no one can read the accounts of Christ appearing in the Book of Mormon [3 Nephi] without seeing many passages borrowed with changes from the Gospel accounts of the New Testament. [Beatitudes, Sermon on the Mount]. Some stories and conversations from the New Testament can be seen being cut and paste into the Book of Mormon. Tanners say they have found more than a hundred such cases in just the first two books of Nephi.

First Discussion

 Name of Christ in the Book of Mormon

Biblical Response

Another Christ

Book of Mormon Prophets taught about Christ

Christian students of the Book of Mormon agree that Book of Mormon prophets taught about Christ. But the research of most Christian and secular scholars have demonstrated these references lack inspiration and historicity.

That God's Son would come to earth and take upon himself a physical body, for example, was foreknown by many prophets (1 Ne. 13:42; Enos 1:8; Mosiah 3:5; Hel. 8:13-22; Ether 3:15-17). The approximate date of his coming was also known (1 Ne. 10:4; 19:8; 2 Ne. 25:19; Hel. 14:2). Several ancient believers were privileged to see him before his mortal advent (2 Ne. 2:4; 11:2; Alma 19:13; Ether 3:14; 9:22). His name-title, Jesus Christ, (i.e., "Savior Anointed") was known long beforehand, as were the name and virginity of his mother and the place of his birth (1 Ne. 11:13-14, 18-20; 2 Ne. 25:19; Mosiah 3:8; Alma 7:10; Ether 3:14). Ancient prophets foresaw his baptism, predicting even its location and specific details of the mission of John the Baptist (1 Ne. 10:8-10). Nephi1 knew that the Savior would call twelve apostles to assist in his ministry (1 Ne. 11:34-36; 12:9; 13:26, 40-41; 14:20, 24, 27), and King Benjamin prophesied of his many miracles (Mosiah 3:5-6). Jesus' atoning death by crucifixion was well known to pre-Christian prophets, who understood that it would be accompanied by three days of darkness preceding his resurrection (1 Ne. 10:11; 11:33; 19:10; 2 Ne. 25:14; Mosiah 3:9-10; Alma 7:11; Hel. 14:14, 20, 27). Indeed, sacrificial practices from Adam onward, including the rituals of the Law of Moses, prefigured Christ and, furthermore, were recognized as doing so by many who performed them (Jacob 4:5). Daniel C. Peterson, Jesus Christ, Book of Mormon References, Encyclopedia on Mormonism

First Discussion

Another Testament

Biblical Response

Do Not Add to My Word

The Book of Mormon is Another testament of Christ (2 Corinthians 13.1)

2 Cor 13:1 - This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. (KJV)

LDS Notes Left Out of the Discussions

2 Nephi 29:3-11

 3 And because my words shall hiss forth--many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible. 

 4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles? 

 6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?

 8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

  9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

  10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

 11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.

Most Christian students see no evidence that the Book of Mormon is another testament of Christ using 2 Corinthians 13:1

2 Cor 13:1 - This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.

This passage contains some direct quotations from the Old Testament Law [Num 35:30, Deut 17:6, 19:15]. These passages delt with legal judgments that carried death penalties. The Mosaic law was careful to protect the accused from spurious witnesses.

The Mormon message uses this quote in application to determining truth between the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

Many missionaries present this part of the discussion by holding out two books together and demonstrating how if they are connected by only one fastener both can be moved freely. But if they are fastened by two fasteners then neither book can be freely moved around. They argue this is helpful for both books and limits problems of unwanted false interpretations of either. They want you to come away from this section believing the Book of Mormon is a good companion to its Bible counterpart.

Christian students of the Book of Mormon however have learned this book is not a good companion.

In 2 Nephi 29 we see language that says God commanded "all nations" to write inspired documents. This included the far east. This chapter used the two witness rule [v. 8] to show how God commanded all men and nations to write scriptures that were equally valid [v. 11]. The Book of Mormon repeated the claim that anyone content with their Bible alone was a fool [v. 4, 6].

 CLOSED CANON

The Bible itself however clearly says in response that human beings are not free to add or take away from the word of God. We see this closure language in two places in the Bible. The first is in the final book of the Hebrew Law [Deu 4:2, 12:32]. The second is in the closing passages of the last Greek New Testament book written by the last living apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ - John [Rev 22].  

First Discussion

Challenge Read the Book of Mormon

Biblical Response

Continue in God's Word

Commitment Invitation: Read

Read all of the Book of Mormon cover to cover.

Anyone who takes the Mormon Challenge to read the Book of Mormon should be careful as they do so. The primary reason is in the way the missionary program of the church depends on the fact that at least once in the coming weeks of your study that you will have some type of warm internal feeling. They have already predetermined for "investigators" that when they have this experience it means Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, and the Mormon Church are all equally true. They will also be prompting you with passages demanding your obedient response to this "revelation" God has given you. Unfortunately for millions this has worked for them too often.

First Discussion

Introduction Book of Mormon

Biblical Response

Do Not Add to My Word

Introduction

LDS Notes Left Out of the Discussions

These nine paragraphs contain important material that should not go unread.

It claims "it is a record of God's dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fulness of the everlasting gospel."

It also contains a helpful chronological summary of main events leading to the September 21, 1823 meeting between Moroni and Joseph Smith. This record was recorded on gold plates which become more a part of the introduction than any persons.

It concludes with an invitation to pray through the promise passage [Moroni 10:3-5].

THE MOST CORRECT BOOK 

It contains a quote from Joseph Smith, "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book." 

Christian students of the Book of Mormon have found no claims in the introduction to be free from problems.

When we look at a list of Maya kings it is important to realize these are the people the Mormon Church has for more than a hundred years linked with the Nephite Pre-Columbian Christian civilization from the Book of Mormon.

Maya chronology and king lists dates do agree with Book of Mormon dates of when Nephites should be found in Mesoamerica. The writings many of them penned by the scribes of the kings themselves are plentiful.

Yet there are serious problems. The first is in content because now that we can read the writings of their cited Maya references they are not Christian.

The Maya are the only ancient American group that had detailed writing as described in the Book of Mormon.

Unfortunately, the Book of Mormon clearly dates the coming of Christ in the Americas in 34 A.D.[3 Nephi]  It also very clearly dates the following 200 years extending past Christ’s appearance as being a time where the entire culture converted to Christ and the fruit of that was a period of no warfare. [4 Nephi].

When we look at the actual written record the Maya left behind, from these periods, we see some important things. First there is no Christ like leader. Second there were no Christians with a Christian ethic who followed for the next 200 years. Third there never was 200 years of peace in the Americas. 

As we examine Joseph Smith's claim that the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on earth we look to the books "Brief Explanation" on the page following Joseph Smith's Testimony.

About this edition: Some minor errors in the text have been perpetuated in past editions of the Book of Mormon. This edition contains corrections that seem appropriate to bring the material into conformity with prepublication manuscripts and early editions edited by the Prophet Joseph Smith.

First Discussion

Testimony Of Witnesses

Biblical Response

Value Human Testimony

Testimony Of Witnesses

LDS Notes Left Out of the Discussions

THREE WITNESSES

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris

These three claim to have seen the plates which contain the Book of Mormon. An angel of God came down from heaven and he brought and laid before our eyes the plates, and the engravings thereon. They swore on this name: Honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

EIGHT WITNESSES

Christian Whitmer        

Hiram Page

Jacob Whitmer

Joseph Smith, Sen.

Peter Whitmer, Jun.     

Hyrum Smith

John Whitmer  

Samuel H. Smith

These eight saw only the plates and engravings. They swore: And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

The Mormon gospel has a great deal to do with proper witnesses. "Investigators" are invited to respond to this language by taking the Book of Mormon seriously by praying and pondering according to the promise passage.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris

Most Christian students of the Book of Mormon however have noted problem with these witnesses.

Joseph Smith himself doubted their integrity. When he wrote about them in his history he said, such characters as “David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Martin Harris are too mean to mention; we had liked to have forgotten them.” Oliver Cowdery Accused Smith of “adultery, lying and teaching false doctrine.” Martin Harris accused Smith of “lying and licentiousness.” David Whitmer said “in June 1838 God spoke to me and told me to separate myself from among the Latter Day Saints.”

All three were excommunicated from the church in 1838. Oliver Cowdery joined the Methodist church in Tiffin, Seneca County, Ohio. Martin Harris became a follower of James Strang and later the Shakers. David Whitmer also initially followed Strang, but then started his own movement, never returning to Mormonism.

We later see Brigham Young confirming the fact that some of the witnesses had apostatized, “some of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon, who handled the plates and conversed with the angels of God, were afterwards left to doubt and to disbelieve that they had ever seen an angel.”

First Discussion

Brief Explanation Of The Plates

Biblical Response

Continue in God's Word

Brief Explanation Of The Plates

The Plates of Nephi

The Plates of Mormon

The Plates of Ether

The Plates of Brass

About this edition notes on corrections.

Encyclopedia on Mormonism

Book of Mormon Plates

The Book of Mormon is a complex text with a complicated history. It is primarily an abridgment of several earlier records by its chief editor and namesake, Mormon.

All these records are referred to as "plates" because they were engraved on thin sheets of metal. The various plates and records referred to in the Book of Mormon and used in making it are (1) the plates of brass; (2) the record of Lehi; (3) the large plates of Nephi1; (4) the small plates of Nephi; (5) the plates of Mormon; and (6) the twenty-four gold plates of Ether.

THE GOLD PLATES. The gold plates that the Prophet Joseph Smith received and translated were the plates of Mormon on which Mormon and his son Moroni made their abridgment. Mormon, a prophet and military leader who lived at the end of the nephite era (c. A.D. 385), was the penultimate custodian of the records of earlier Nephite prophets and rulers.

First Discussion

Read  3 Nephi 11

Biblical Response

Know the Truth

Read 3 Nephi 11

By Next Visit

LDS Notes Left Out of the Discussions

3 Nephi 11:8 -10

 And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes up again towards heaven;

and behold, they saw a Man descending out of heaven; and he was clothed in a white robe;

and he came down and stood in the midst of them; and the eyes of the whole multitude were turned upon him,

and they durst not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared unto them.

 9 And it came to pass that he stretched forth his hand and spake unto the people, saying:

 10 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world.

This section of the Book of Mormon contains the description of Christ appearing after his resurrection in the Americas.

Unfortunately, for Mormons, when scholars research this time period in Mesoamerica they see no such Christianity.

Dr. Michael Coe wrote, “blood was the mortar of Mayan life” because “the Maya equated lineage with blood, and it was the obligation of these kings and queens to shed their own blood on important ritual occasions, undoubtedly before the assembled nobility and perhaps even in view of an awestruck populace. So significant was this act that the bloodletter, often a stingray spine, was itself deified.”

“Mormon archeologists over the years have almost unanimously accepted the Book of Mormon as an accurate, historical account of the New World peoples.... Let me now state uncategorically that as far as I know there is not one professionally trained archeologist, who is not a Mormon, who sees any scientific justification for believing the foregoing to be true, and I would like to state that there are quite a few Mormon archeologists who join this group.... The bare facts of the matter are that nothing, absolutely nothing, has ever shown up in any New World excavation which would suggest to a dispassionate observer that the Book of Mormon, as claimed by Joseph Smith, is a historical document relating to the history of early migrants to our hemisphere.”

First Discussion

Holy Ghost Witnesses The Truth

Biblical Response

Illumination

The Holy Ghost: A Witness Of The Truth

The Holy Ghost confirms the message of Joseph Smith (John 14.26)

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (KJV)

The disciples experienced "illumination" from Jesus through the Holy Spirit. As He spoke and taught the Scriptures the Spirit was also teaching them from within. This illumination is a technical theological term that defines this work of the Spirit.

Luke 24:29-32 - But they urged Him, saying, "Stay with us, for it is getting toward evening, and the day is now nearly over." So He went in to stay with them. When He had reclined at the table with them, He took the bread and blessed it  and breaking it  He began giving it to them. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from their sight. They said to one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?"

As we study these kinds of passages we are led to have a high view of God's Word which is "inspired" meaning God-breathed in connection with illumination which takes away the darkness preventing a godly interpretation of Scripture.

Something neither Jesus or the apostles did was to use this "burning sensation" as a stand alone truth test as Mormons do in their Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants.

Biblical Pattern Evaluating Truth Claims

What Does the Law Prescribe?

Deut 13:14 - then you shall investigate and search out and inquire thoroughly. If it is true ….

What Did Jesus Say?

Luke 21:14-15 - "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves;

for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute.

What Did Paul Say?

2 Tim 2:25 - with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth.

What Did Peter Say?

1 Pet 3:15 - but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.

First Discussion

Pray Book of Mormon

Biblical Response

Know the Truth

You can know Joseph Smith is a Prophet

The Book of Mormon contains a promise (Moroni 10.3-5)

Moroni 10:3-5

 3. Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down unto the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4. And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

 LDS Notes Left Out of the Discussions

Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-9

7. Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.  8. But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. 9. But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.

Rom 1:18 - For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness

Rom 1:25 - For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Not only do we see truth not being universal in the New Testament we see how God reacts to those who "suppress" truth or "exchange" truth of God for a lie.

Truth was so vital that it was a cause for separation.

Gal 4:16 - So have I become your enemy by telling you the truth?

How does the Holy Spirit say we present truth in difficult times when not everyone agrees?

2 Tim 2:15 - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

Eph 4:15 - but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ.

God's word is to be our source for truth and we are to divide or handle it carefully. Paul calls God's word "the word of truth." Paul also says our spoken message must be communicated both in truth and love. Paul called the church

"the pillar and support of the truth" [1 Tim 3:15].

In contrast to this logical Biblical method of determining and communicating truth we see the Book of Mormon presenting a truth test that is based on the personal feelings of the person seeking truth.

The Book of Mormon promises that if you have a warm fuzzy feeling that this is meant to communicate the idea that Joseph Smith Jr. is a true prophet of God. This is confirmed by their Doctrine & Covenants:

One reason for the substantial growth of Mormonism is the evidence that obtaining a warm fuzzy feeling is not too difficult a task.

First Discussion

Read & Ponder the Book of Mormon

Biblical Response

Continue In My Word

We should read, ponder, and pray

Commitment Invitation: Pray

John 8:31-32

"So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

John 4:23-24

"But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Phil 4:8

"Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things." 

First Discussion

Invitation to Be Baptized

Biblical Response

Baptism

You can be baptized

LDS Notes Left Out of the Discussions

Essential Ordinance

The fourth article of faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints declares that "baptism by immersion for the remission of sins" is one of the "first principles and ordinances of the Gospel." [Ency on Morm]

Latter-day Saints believe, as do many Christians, that baptism is an essential initiatory ordinance for all persons who are joining the Church, as it admits them to Christ's church on earth (John 3:3-5; D&C 20:37, 68-74). [Ency on Morm]

It is a primary step in the process, which includes faith, repentance, baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end, whereby members may receive remission of their sins and gain access to the Celestial Kingdom and eternal life (e.g., Mark 16:15-16; 2 Ne. 31:13-21; D&C 22:1-4; 84:64, 74; MD, pp. 69-72). [Ency on Morm]

Mormons believe, "The authority to baptize was restored by John the Baptist to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery on May 15, 1829 (JS—H 1:68-72). From the early days of the restored Church, missionaries have been sent to "declare repentance and faith on the Savior, and remission of sins by baptism" (D&C 19:31; 55:2; 84:27, 74). "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, and he that believeth not, and is not baptized, shall be damned" (D&C 112:29). This is the central teaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ (3 Ne. 11:31-40)."

[Ency on Morm]

Christians do not agree that baptism is an essential ordinance of the gospel. Christians do agree you can be baptized. You should get baptized, but it is not a requisite to salvation as Mormons and Roman Catholics both teach.

History and Development of Baptism

Jewish Baptism. Baptisms, or ceremonial purifications, were common among the Jews. Not only priests and other persons but also clothing, utensils, and articles of furniture were thus ceremonially cleansed Lev. 8:6; Exo. 19:10-14; Mark 7:3-4; Heb. 9:10. [New Unger's Bible Dictionary].

John's Baptism. The baptism of John was not Christian, but Jewish. It was, however, especially a baptism "for repentance." The only faith that it expressed concerning Christ was that His coming was close at hand. Those who confessed and repented of their sins and were baptized by John were thus obedient to his call to "make ready the way of the Lord" Matt. 3:3. [New Unger's Bible Dictionary].

Christian Baptism Baptistic View. Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water as a sign of his previous entrance into the communion of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. In other words, baptism is a token of the regenerated soul's union with Christ.

Obligation. Baptism is an ordinance instituted by Christ Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16, practiced by the apostles Acts 2:38, submitted to by members of NT churches Rom. 6:3-5; Col. 2:11-12, and subsequently practiced as a rite in Christian churches. [New Unger's Bible Dictionary].

Significance. Symbolizing regeneration through union with Christ, baptism portrays not only Christ's death and resurrection and their purpose in atoning for sin in delivering sinners from sin's penalty and power, but also betokens the accomplishment of that purpose in the person baptized Rom. 6:3-5; Gal. 3:27; Col. 3:3. The rite sets forth the fact that the believer has received Christ and in faith given himself to Him Rom. 6:5; Col. 2:12. [New Unger's Bible Dictionary].

First Discussion

Commitment Next Discussion

Biblical Response

Inquire Thoroughly

Commitment Invitation: Next discussion

If you choose to continue with the discussion plan the Mormons will begin to refer to you as an "investigator." Be a Biblical Investigator.

Then you shall investigate and search out and inquire thoroughly. If it is true… Deut 13:14

But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.

1 Pet 3:15

BE PREPARED SPIRITUALLY

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints, and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel.

Ephesians 6:10-19